Talk:Russiaball

Updating the Russia page, but not allowing other edits

TEB here ( TheElectricBomb). What should I put to the relations list? Of course I will change the relationship with USA and Ukraine.

(Ukraine's page will be updated too) - TheElectricBomb 22:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

The whole thing is off actually.

I... talked with the mods. Sorry but I can't update it, I'm not allowed. - TheElectricBomb 00:57, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Adding the 2022 russian invasion of ukraine on the 1992-present in the russiaball page

If any of you guys can edit the russiaball page, i would recommend you to add the russian invasion of ukraine text on the 1992-present in history, the last thing that shows up is putin going on a vacation to siberia, so please add that. JoseGama Mapper123 (talk) 12:42, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Update

Russia Anschluss southern and eastern Ukraineball (but this isn't recognized). Grim kim (talk) 23:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Needs the "Contains controversial themes" warning

Because of the Invasion of Ukraine. Couldn't edit because of protection Hahamanlol100 (talk) 22:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Correct flag colours because the outdated color table is the same as Chileball's

1. Russia's flag colors from Wikipedia:

Color Name		RGB	CMYK	HEX
	White	255, 255, 255	N/A	#FFFFFF
	UA Blue	0, 50, 160	C100-M80-Y0-K-12	#0032A0
	Maximum Red	218, 41, 28	C0-M95-Y100-K0	#DA291C

1. Chile's flag colors from Wikipedia:

Color Name		RGB	CMYK	HEX
	Philippine Blue	0, 57, 166	C100-M66-Y0-K35	#0039A6
	White	255, 255, 255	N/A	#FFFFFF
	Maximum Red	213, 43, 30	C0-M80-Y86-K16	#D52B1E

Regarding Russian Empire

For some reason, this article has (or had) Russiaball having negative opinion about Russian Empire, while modern Putinist Russia has made some positive remarks about both Russian Empire and Soviet Union (obviously not being the same to neither of them), likely due to Russian nationalism rather than for ideology. Even Putin himself has compared himself to Peter The Great and he criticised Lenin for creating Ukraine. Since yesterday, there has been an edit conflict in the article due to that. Any views on that? FtosorciM (talk) 20:52, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

My view is keep it as it is. Today’s Russia is still against the Russian Empire. This fellow FtosorciM is wrong. This evidence proves 100 percent that he is wrong. This is the proof here:https://globalhappenings.com/top-global-news/133603.html?amp. I will undo his edits. John Kufuor (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

It is true that Maria Vladimirovna (current head of the House of Romanov) condemned the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, but she supported the annexation of Crimea back in 2014 and opposed the Euromaidan; also, modern descendents of former monarchs have become somewhat more liberal than when their ancestors used to rule, even the Karadorevic of Serbia are now pro-European and liberal. Plus, Vladimir Putin himself and his government, while obviously not communist neither tsarist, had condemned Lenin in multiple statements, and even praised few aspects of the Russian Empire, like in these few ones (I think rather due to nationalism than due to ideology, as he has also praised both the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/putin-compares-himself-to-peter-the-great-in-quest-to-take-back-russian-lands https://www.voanews.com/a/putin-denounces-lenin-says-stalin-got-it-right/3162079.html http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181 https://www.newsweek.com/putin-invokes-soviet-heroes-lenin-stalin-says-russia-created-ukraine-1681185 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/25/vladmir-putin-accuses-lenin-of-placing-a-time-bomb-under-russia https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/world/2016/01/25/russia-putin/79303540/ and even more (some of them could be biased due to being western media (ignoring the kremlin.ru) one, but still). Anyway I added Russian Empire in Frenemies, not in friends, and even also kept the Enemies thing but as "sometimes", as obviously modern Russia isn't completely supportive of tsarist legacy neither neo-tsarist. FtosorciM (talk) 23:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Look man just stop putting the Russian Empire in the both sides. Okay today’s Russia is against the Russian Empire and you know that Vladimir Putin actually condemned the Victims of Communism monument and he shut down the memorial human rights group and called it a terrorist organization: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-05-22/h_898a98f6feb1ec357775a6d70b434940. Also Russian media today strongly dislikes anti communist leaders like Augusto Pinochet: https://sputnikglobe.com/20230216/forensic-probe-reveals-chilean-nobel-laureate-pablo-neruda-died-of-poisoning-family-says-1107480756.html. I have to undo your edits. Okay. That’s final. John Kufuor (talk) 00:06, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Actually https://twitter.com/ndaktuell/status/1496486724570161156, but he wasn't in power yet and he may have changed his views ofc; in Latin America, Russia supports leftist governments because of anti-Americanism, not because of neo-communism (maybe a bit Soviet nostalgia but still). He likely shut down that Victims of Communism because of Russian nationalism and anti-Westernism, not because of neo-communism. You didn't prove if modern Russia is against Russian Empire and its legacy, you just sent links about Russia being a bit Soviet-ish. I know Putin has praised the Soviet Union and used its legacy to justify expansionist goals (also that of Russian Empire, like Ribbon of Saint George, which was also used a bit in Soviet era but it wasn't as relevant as in Russian Empire and current Russian Federation), so I won't edit USSR being in Friends in both Russian Empireball and Russiaball articles, but Putin has also criticised pre-Stalin Leninist Soviet Russia and Lenin for "placing a time bomb over Russia" and inventing Ukraine (this one from official en.kremlin.ru page). Again: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/putin-compares-himself-to-peter-the-great-in-quest-to-take-back-russian-lands https://www.voanews.com/a/putin-denounces-lenin-says-stalin-got-it-right/3162079.html http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181 https://www.newsweek.com/putin-invokes-soviet-heroes-lenin-stalin-says-russia-created-ukraine-1681185 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/25/vladmir-putin-accuses-lenin-of-placing-a-time-bomb-under-russia https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/world/2016/01/25/russia-putin/79303540/ https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/01/29/st-petersburg-lawmakers-attack-bill-on-imperial-russian-flag-a31570 https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/09980713-scaled.jpg and there are even more in the web. I have temporarily stopped undoing edits, if I readd Russian Empire stuff, it could or might be less positive-ish, but still mentioning some positive stuff. FtosorciM (talk) 02:50, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Look keep Russian Empire and Russiaball as the same. Okay. Vladimir Putin long before the current conflict in Ukraine strongly opposed removing the mausoleum of Lenin. Here it is: . So I don’t think that the Russian Empire is that loved. John Kufuor (talk) 02:58, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Putin has somewhat changed some of his views since he initially came to power (for example, back in 2000, he used to propose Russia joining NATO, but years later he became anti-western), so 2000s Russia might not be the same as modern Russia. This might be more recent, but Putin said he would keep Lenin's mausoleum to prevent division in society (even in the article Putin says he changed his views about Lenin), maybe as the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is the largest opposition party in the Duma. Maybe Russian Empire isn't that loved in modern Russia (that's why I added it to frenemies and not to friends, and with "sometimes" instead of regular always), but neither that hated, maybe just like as the Soviet Union is seen in modern Russia (ik about WWII stuff being used to promote invasion of Ukraine), but again, I won't edit anything related to Soviet Union relations in Russiaball article neither Russian Empireball, just about Russian Empireball and Russiaball, just that. FtosorciM (talk) 03:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah but now the whole Russian society and people have moved against the West. Also the Russian Empire was very pro western and it mostly supported the West and America before the 1917 Russian Revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_Russian_Empire. This is why the articles should stay the same. John Kufuor (talk) 03:26, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Dude you literally ignored Great Northern War and Crimean War, where Imperial Russia literally fought against western powers. Russia supported USA in the American Civil War to counterbalance British interests (at the time the largest western power in the world). It is true that Russian Empire was not as anti-western as Soviet Union neither as modern Russia, but it also had few confrontations with the west (not always ofc). I already provided several sources regarding Russia and Russian Empire stuff in previous answers. If I edit the articles, Russia/Russian Empire will still be in enemies, but an entry in frenemies for them might also be added with "(sometimes)", while keeping the enemies thing. FtosorciM (talk) 03:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Still that doesn’t mean that the Russian Empire was fully pro Western at all. But you should look at the article for the Russian Revolution on Polandball Wiki. The Russian Empire poorly treated the workers and peasants. Just look at that article here: Russian Revolution. John Kufuor (talk) 03:56, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

You just said the Russian Empire was strongly pro-west and then you contradict yourself by saying "Still that doesn’t mean that the Russian Empire was fully pro Western at all" (I think it might be an error so no problem); Russian Empire sometimes supported west and sometimes opposed it according to its geopolitical interests at the time, which could change. Yes ik about poor labor conditions in Russian Empire, Russian Revolution and foreign interventions by western powers and Japan against the Bolsheviks (due to fear of the expansion of communism, Russian Empire being in the Entente, economic interests, etc), but it isn't directly related to the edit issue. FtosorciM (talk) 04:26, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Still the current Russian government doesn’t really view the Russian Empire favorably. Vladimir Putin and his government saw Czar Nicholas II as a weak and ineffective leader who didn’t know how to rule a large nation. John Kufuor (talk) 06:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes he has criticised Nicholas II (many people in Russia agree he was a kakistocrat), but mostly him as Russian Empire weakened under his rule, but he has also praised previous Russian Empire tsars like Peter the Great (for his campaign in Sweden which Putin compared to the stuff in Ukraine), used both Soviet and Imperial Russian symbols for war propaganda, criticised Lenin for "inventing Ukraine" and "placing a timebomb" etc. Again, that's why I would add Russian Empire or Russia to Frenemies and "(sometimes)", not to friends, also keeping the Enemy stuff but also adding Frenemy aspects (maybe also stuff about Maria Vladimirovna praising annexation of Crimea but condemning annexation of Ukraine, Nicholas II being incompetent, etc). FtosorciM (talk) 11:44, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Those sources still don’t reflect the reality. In fact a lot of scholars said that with Russia undergoing neo Soviet Nostalgia as evidence over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Sovietism#Neo-Soviet_organizations. Also this is a bizarre theory which excuses the fact that Peter the Great turned and aligned Russia to the West. Today’s Russia is against the West. https://huri.harvard.edu/news/serhii-plokhii-casus-belli-did-lenin-create-modern-ukraine John Kufuor (talk) 15:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

It is true that Russia is using neo-Soviet legacy for war stuff and that there is Soviet nostalgia among Russian population, I don't deny that neither I will edit that, but it doesn't make it directly neo-communist, as it rather advocates for Russian nationalism rather than restoration of marxism-leninism and/or tsarism. You just added a link about why did Lenin not create Ukraine, not about Putin's views on Russian Empire neither of his statements about Lenin having created Ukraine. Plus, again, despite Peter the Great westernized and somewhat modernized Russia, and his Russia had some coalitions with western states, it also fought against some western states back in the Great Northern War, like Sweden, Poland-Lithuania, Netherlands, France, England/UK (1700, 1719-1720), etc, plus, again, even if Peter the Great was pro-west or not, Vladimir Putin still praised him over the Great Northern War. There are also scholars who said that modern Russia is also using imperial legacy to justify its foreign policy: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2869863 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/features/analysis-putins-imperial-ambitions-and-ukraines-300-year-road-statehood http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181 https://www.jstor.org/stable/42896424 https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2022/03/01/putins-dark-designs-restore-pre-1917-russian-empire FtosorciM (talk) 21:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Even so this has not stopped Vladimir Putin from praising the Soviet Union. Also Vladimir Putin saw Czar Nicholas II as a weak and ineffective leader. So in my view the Russian Empire should be kept in the Enemies section. Also Putin supports and encourages neo Soviet nostalgia:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180314183828/http://russian.peopledaily.com.cn/200107/19/rus20010719_48145.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_imagery_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

https://www.rbth.com/articles/2012/01/23/unageing_monument_lenin_is_forever_14224.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/23/back-in-the-ussr-lenin-statues-and-soviet-flags-reappear-in-russian-controlled-cities

https://thedispatch.com/article/lenin-returns-to-ukraine/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-occupation-of-southern-ukraine-hardens-with-rubles-russian-schools-and-lenin-statues-11651403176 John Kufuor (talk) 22:27, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I already know all of that, but again, Putin might condemn Nicholas II, but he has praised other tsars such as Peter the Great, and I also know about Soviet imagery, Soviet nostalgia and Lenin statues rebuilt stuff in Russian invasion of Ukraine, which I don't think is due to neo-communism, but to symbolize Russian victory, the legacy of the Great Patriotic War/Eastern Front, and Russian nationalism. It is also true that in Russian occupied places in Ukraine, their names were returned to Soviet era, not to Russian Imperial ones. Despite that, some Russian imperial and tsarist symbols have been also used in the invasion of Ukraine, such as the Ribbon of Saint George, the 1858-1896 Russian Empire flag, the Gracious Saviour flag from Ivan the Terrible (not from Russian Empire but still a tsarist symbol), etc.That neo-Soviet nostalgia is rather due to Russian nationalism, as Putin criticised Soviet Union's federalism. Again, I will keep the Enemies stuff, as there are also negative aspects regarding Russia-Russian Empire opinions, and also to prevent edit conflicts, but I will also add Frenemies with "(sometimes)", but also mentioning negative stuff there. FtosorciM (talk) 23:56, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

The Ribbon of Saint George was used during Soviet times as well. But today’s Russia is different from the Russian Empire. The Russian Empire had close relations with the American government. Today’s Russia is against America. So just don’t put Russian Empire on Frenemies. John Kufuor (talk) 02:09, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I know the Ribbon of Saint George was also used in USSR, but as I said before, it was not as relevant or as overused as it was in Russian Empire and in modern Russia. While Russian Empire-USA relations were mostly cordial, there were also some tensions due to mistreatment of Jews in Russia, and USA was reluctant to become an ally of the undemocratic Tsar in World War I, yet their relations were still limited as they focused more in their internal issues. Still, I already provided many links about modern Russia praising some aspects of Russian Empire (ik Putin has also praised USSR and criticised Nicholas II though). Yet again, I will not remove Russia/Russian Empire from Enemies, I will just add to Frenemies with "(sometimes)" also mentioning negative opinions about Russian Empire from modern Russia (not restoring the monarchy, Maria Vladimirovna of the House of Romanov supporting the annexation of Crimea but condemning the invasion of Ukraine, Nicholas II being incompetent, selling Alaska, USSR being good too according to Russian Federation, etc), not to Friends and I will not edit USSR relations stuff in both articles neither. FtosorciM (talk) 02:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

But still even so the Russian Empire has been abolished since the 1917 Russian Revolution. I think that it should still mosty be in the enemies section because today’s Russia is very Anti American and very Anti Western in its Foreign and Domestic policy. John Kufuor (talk) 02:59, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Ik the Russian Empire was abolished over 100 years ago obviously. Still, again, Russian Empire's foreign policy could vary depending of its geopolitical interests at the time. Whether if current Russia is anti-western and/or anti-American or if Russian Empire was the opposite, I have already provided enough links of positive statements by Putin about Russian Empire, and I also know and admit Putin's criticisms on Nicholas II (not on other tsars) and some neo-Sovietism in modern Russia. So what about keeping Russia/Russian Empire relations in enemies just like pre-edit conflict, but also adding an entry for them in frenemies with "(sometimes)" just like I proposed? However, it will not be the exact same as what I did in my previous edits, as additional info from this talk page (both positive and negatives aspects of opinion about Russian Empire in modern Russia) will be added. FtosorciM (talk) 03:59, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I don’t know. Regarding frenemies. But since today’s Russia is very anti American as well as anti Western. I would continue discussions here. But I think that for now the articles on Russian Empire and Russia should stay the same. We should keep Russian Empire in enemies for now. John Kufuor (talk) 04:17, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

It should be important to remember the historical context of the Russian Empire. At the time when the Russian Empire existed, the USA and the west were not an unified geopolitcal bloc as it currently is, and Russian Empire did often support USA because of its rivalry with the United Kingdom known as the "Great Game" over spheres of influence, a rivalry which lasted until the early XX century. Again, the alliances and foreign policy of the Russian Empire varied on specific context and time, sometimes allying with the west and sometimes opposing it. FtosorciM (talk) 18:01, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

True and the Russian Empire was very friendly to the United States government as well. John Kufuor (talk) 18:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Somewhat yes, because as I said, the West (Western European powers) and the USA were not an unified bloc yet as they currently are since Cold War, and the Russian Empire still had few tensions with the USA for mistreatment of Jews in Russia, and USA was reluctant to become an ally of the undemocratic Tsar in World War I, yet their relations were still limited as they focused more in their internal issues. FtosorciM (talk) 14:08, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Indeed but today’s Russia preserved and adopted most of the Soviet Union’s legacy and it still follows its policy mostly. Also it’s mostly anti Western. So yeah the Russian Empire is not seen as a friend. John Kufuor (talk) 13:42, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not enemy of Russian Empire, but there's isn't planned economy (the economy is highly state controlled and also state-affiliated oligarchs own a lot stuff, but still a market capitalist economy), state atheism (Russian government has close ties with Russian Orthodox Church, just like old Russian Empire), one party system (dominant party ofc, but not one party), etc and other elements of the Soviet Union. Yes, ik Putinist Russia restored Soviet anthem music (not lyrics) and kept Lenin monuments (and also kept Leningrad oblast name as Leningrad only renaming the city Saint Petersburg), but still there is some positive remarks from Putin's government about Russian Empire (already provided them in previous answers) plus the Russian coat of arms has a two-headed eagle with crown. Maybe Russian Empire is not seen as a friend, but not as an enemy. FtosorciM (talk) 02:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

That’s not true at all. In fact most of the true anti Communists would want a complete and total decommunization as well as a deSovietization of Russia. And guess what the current Russian government will never ever do that. I mean that’s final. So no the Russian Empire is still not that liked at all. John Kufuor (talk) 03:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't the current Russian government is fully anti-communist or anti-Soviet (many things from Soviet era are kept, such as anthem instrumental, oblast names, monuments, etc), Putin has done some criticisms to Lenin in the recent years ofc (and directly or indirectly praised some stuff related to Russian Empire), and there are actual monarchists in Russia (like Zhirinovsky, ik he's dead) who want that. That's why I want to keep Soviet Union in friends, but add Russian Empire to frenemies and with "(sometimes)". FtosorciM (talk) 17:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I still think that the Russian Empire should stay in enemies only. Yes Putin praised the Russian Empire and criticized Lenin but he has refused to completely decommunize or desovietize Russia completely. So yeah the Russian Empire should forever stay in the enemies list my good friend. John Kufuor (talk) 19:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Regarding both Luxembourg and Israel

Russia’s relations with Luxembourg are somewhat strained because of the Ukrainian conflict but it’s relations with Israel have completely cooled considerably. As shown here: https://www.palestinechronicle.com/israel-ukraine-fighting-same-battle-against-humanity-russia-escalates-language/ https://twitter.com/giladerdan1/status/1762212451259441600 https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1762277037526471085?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1762277037526471085%7Ctwgr%5E1640240fe81ddad35fce56597c708a4902ced260%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.palestinechronicle.com%2Fisrael-ukraine-fighting-same-battle-against-humanity-russia-escalates-language%2F. So in my opinion put Luxembourg in the neutral section and switch Israel to the Enemies section now. That’s because Israel is no longer friends with Russia. Luxembourg on the other hand is okay. Natalia Konovalova (talk) 20:46, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

So can we change Luxembourg to neutral. And can we add Israel to the enemies of Russia. We can change it at anytime. Paging Grim Kim. I think you can do it. Natalia Konovalova (talk) 06:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Israel and Luxembourg are already on Russia's enemies list. Grim kim (talk) 23:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)